Dembski, Darwin and Denominations (of cash)

22 March 2007  

Over at his hive of stupidity, bigotry and intolerance, Uncommon Descent, William Dembski is making more ridiculous noises, this time about the fact that we have the etched image of Charles Darwin on the £10 Bank of England note.

His idea is that Darwin dissenters, when offered one of these notes, should ask for two five pound notes instead, saying something like this:

No thanks, I’d rather have two fivers. I don’t take money that praises racists and bigots — and neither should you.

How very droll, especially when this comes from a man that believes one of the vilest books in (not of) history should be considered not only the ultimate source on morality but also of scientific knowledge.

Anyway, onto Dembski’s statements.

British paper currency — the 10-pound note — features Charles Darwin. (The custom is that the notes all have the Queen on one side and a famous Briton on the other. The notes are in denominations 5, 10, 20, and 50; there are no 1-pound or 2-pound paper notes, these are coins).

If this paragraph exemplifies the amount of research that Dembski puts into a project, then I’m not surprised at the bampot conclusions he comes up with. A few corrections:

1) There are several forms of £10 note – it’s only the Bank of England £10 note that features Darwin.
2) The custom of the Queen on one side again only applies to Bank of England notes.
3) There are still £1 notes issued by the Royal Bank of Scotland, although these are beginning to be phased out.

Three mistakes in the very first paragraph — way to research, Dembski!

A couple of days ago the Bank of England issued a new 20-pound note, using new security features, and took the occasion to change the “famous person.” This is a news-worthy cause for British Darwin-doubters, who should urge that Darwin be dumped from the 10-pound note whenever there is a new security-upgrade version, on grounds that he is the chief prophet of the materialist religion, and his presence on the 10-pound note is an inappropriate endorsement of that materialist religion and its related anti-religious ferment.

Um. “Materialist religion”? What the fuck is that? Oh… you mean the “‘materialist religion’ that isn’t a religion at all by any stretch of the imagination, but can be considered ‘materialist’ because we don’t take a bunch of scrolls written in the bronze age as the source of ultimate truth and bow down to an imaginary sky fairy” religion? Oh, why didn’t you say so?

Now, it’s true that Britain has no 1st Amendment, but still, Britain is trying to be multi-cultural. A part of the effort could include a long list of choice inflammatory quotes from the new anti-religion books currently out in the bookstores (and in Darwin’s own writings — see the previous post here at UD); the effort could point out that the government, by honoring Darwin, implicitly lends its prestige to their venom.

Fortunately, we in the UK aren’t as foaming-at-the-mouth as Dembski is. While the UK is historically a christian country, and we still have some stupid archaic laws (e.g. blasphemy — a victimless crime if ever there was one) and some institutional bias (non-elected bishops in the House of Lords) to that effect, for the most part we (christians and non-christians alike) get on pretty well. Sadly, of course, there is the the odd fundie wingnut doing the rounds. Yes, I’m looking at you Dogshit.

In fact, the British government recently put out a statement that I can’t see the US government putting out any time in the next few decades. The non-religious are just as much a part of society and just as valuable as those who are.

I do think it’s indeed rich (and not a little hypocritical) for Dembski to ask for people to point to a long list of choice inflammatory quotes from the new anti-religion books currently out, when his holy tome is a greater source of cruelty and violence, injustice and bigotry than anything written by any non-believer.

Then Dembski goes on with the non sequitur, although getting back to his previous rant about Darwin. However, contrary to what Dembski thinks, the Bank of England says why it has Darwin on the £10 note, but it doesn’t have anything to do with racism:

Historical character – Charles Darwin (1809-1882). As a young man Darwin was employed as the naturalist on board the ship HMS Beagle an illustration of which is depicted on the back of the note. Also pictured is an illustration of Darwin’s own magnifying lens and the flora and fauna that he may have come across on his travels.
Bank of England

Dembski suggests an alternative to Darwin:

A worthy replacement on the 10-pound note would be William Wilberforce, the anti-slavery crusader, particularly in light of the new movie. As it happens the Fabian Society is also in favor of dumping Darwin, and offers Wilberforce as a possible new famous person — at least, that is what one website says. Thus, this effort would also kick-off a comparison of what good has been brought to the world by these two people — Darwin vs. Wilberforce. Nazi Eugenics vs. the abolition of slavery. Is there really any contest?

Darwin was a Nazi? Amazing, considering that he died in 1882. I really shouldn’t have to explain that stupidity of this statement, it really does go above and beyond any kind of sense whatsoever. A straw man and an ad hominem in one neat bundle. Oh, and perhaps you should do a little more investigation about Darwin’s attitudes to racism and slavery, possibly within the context of the 19th century. But don’t let the facts get in the way of a good fundie rant, will you?

It also just goes to provide more evidence (as if any were needed) that Dembski isn’t seeking any “truth” with his ID crap, but that he’s on a personal mission to try to destroy the character of a man that’s been dead for over a hundred years.

Strangely, on searching the Fabian Society’s web site, I found no reference to their desire to replace Darwin or any other figure. I did, though, find a site that referenced their support to have Dadabhai Naoroji, a Parsi, on any denomination note, but it was in reference to having a non-white face, rather than replacing Darwin specifically.

Of course, Dembski picks William Wilberforce (because he was a christian) and uses the reasoning that he was a vocal opponent of the slave trade, thus setting up a false dichotomy of Darwin or Wilberforce. Sorry Dembski, there are other choices too.

I’ve also already mentioned Wilberforce previously. He wasn’t exactly christianity’s favourite son at the time — the church was a firm supporter of slavery.

In other words, promote a boycott of the Darwin 10-pound note because it promotes racism. It’s like putting Robert E. Lee on the ten-dollar bill because he was a great general, and ignoring the cause he served. This would work particularly well because the goal of the Fabians and other multiculturalists is to re-define Britain to be racially-inclusive. Thus there is a particular reason to highlight the racism of Darwin and get rid of him.

This is simpleminded buffoonery. Let’s turn this around:

In other words, promote a boycott of the bible because it promotes racism, slavery, intolerance, murder, rape, torture…

You get the picture, I’m sure.

In fact, the bible does indeed promote these things, and even more so if you choose to interpret it a certain way. A £10 note, however, doesn’t promote anything of the sort, it doesn’t say anything about racism.

So, Demski claims that multi-culturalism is a good thing? Great, welcome aboard! Now, campaign in your own fucking country to get that christian-exclusive ‘in god we trust’ shit off your own money to cater for everyone: or maybe pluralise it for your cultural brethren hindus? Oh, not so multicultural now, are we? Hypocrite.

This would also be a good way to start a counter-reaction to the ‘Darwin Deification’ that we are going to get in 2009. Deifying Darwin is contrary to the multicultural goal of the British intelligentia (sic), and it encourages the worst anti-religious bigotry of Dawkins et al.

Darwin deification? What crap is this? Who the fuck is deifying Darwin in Britain? Just because you say it, doesn’t make it so, Dembski.

And, just for Demski’s information, pro-equality is not anti-religion, it’s anti-special treatment, something that religions enjoy in abundance. Unless he’s also claiming that being pro-religion implies anti-equality, but we knew that already, didn’t we? Ask the women, the homosexuals and the non-believers in your own country to tell you about it. In fact, Dembski is so keen to attack a man dead for over 100 years, yet one mustn’t says anything uncomplimentary about his (not-even verified as existing) Jesus or his completely contradictory god.

Here’s a little advice from a native Briton to an American fundie: take your (our) pair of fivers, fold them until they’re all sharp corners, then shove them up your arse*. Actually, don’t: use your own almighty-fucking-dollar instead.

* That’s ‘ass’ to you, wingnut.

Thanks to TW over at Why Don’t You for alerting me to this amazing numbskullery.

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  4. Dear Frau Hitler ...
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13 Responses to “Dembski, Darwin and Denominations (of cash)”

  1. TW on March 22nd, 2007 11:57 pm

    Three mistakes in the very first paragraph — way to research, Dembski!

    It is ok for Dembski – he doesnt need Research, God tells him everything he needs to know. Sadly for everyone else, God speaks through Dembski’s toaster….

  2. nullifidian on March 23rd, 2007 12:03 am

    LMAO!

  3. TW on March 23rd, 2007 12:08 am

    p.s. Is it just me who finds Dembski trying to get into bed with the Fabian society somewhat ironic?

    p.p.s. Well said on the anti-special treatment bit. That is one of the most annoying things the crackpots get up to. (If you get spare time have a look at http:// recycledart.org / drupal-5.0-rc1 / (spaced out to avoid creating a link just in case it improves the sites rankings…)

  4. Sunder Katwala on March 24th, 2007 6:41 am

    The Fabian Society has not called for Darwin to come off banknotes, or for Wilberforce to be added.

    The historian Linda Colley noted (in an interview with the Fabian Review, in December 2005) that “There are all sorts of practical things we might do to improve historical education and notions of citizenship here … Why, for instance, are the people on British banknotes always white? Why not have Olaudah Equiano, the great 18th century anti-slavery writer and big enlightenment figure on a note? Or the first Indian MP? We had Indian MPs here in the nineteenth, but most people don’t know about it”,

    The idea was as much about engaging people with less well known aspects of our history, as much as reflecting diversity of Britain today.

    This led to a wide number of suggestions from various newspapers and others about different people – Mary Seacole being a popular suggestion. We suggested that a ‘Great Britons’ style public debate when notes are next being changed would be good in creating public debate and engagement with history. This might involve Shakespeare, leading suffragettes, anti-slavery campaigners and others being nominated and debated (and certainly Science would be an impotant theme to represent)

    The only person on a note who we mentioned is Sir John Houblon on the fifty pound note. As there are already different notes in Scotland, it would not necessarily mean droppping people, but in any event Darwin wasn’t mentioned by us.

    http://www.fabian-society.org.uk/press_office/display.asp?cat=24&id=512

  5. nullifidian on March 24th, 2007 11:43 am

    Sunder, thank you very much for taking the time to alert me to the Fabian Society’s actual position. And I would also like to thank you for commenting on Dembski’s own weblog, and correcting his illegitimate notions.

  6. Common Sense on March 24th, 2007 2:34 pm

    Fantastic! However, I doubt a correction of Dembski will garner any sort of significant reconsideration from him, instead he will choose to sail over the salient point of such a correction and engage in nothing more than pointless conjecture. That is, if he responds at all. But that’s just a prediction, and like any god, I’m only right about 50% of the time.

    Damn… I’m so cynical.

  7. nullifidian on March 24th, 2007 2:46 pm

    I severely doubt it too. Dembski has repeatedly shown that he holds just about anybody that disagrees with his ill-conceived notions with contempt, even when shown things that can be confirmed.

    His original point of mentioning the Fabian Society at all was just a fallacious appeal to authority. Sadly this lead to a complete misrepresentation of their position, which not only doesn’t support his fantastically pointless ad hominem argument, it actually contradicts it as confirmed by their general secretary.

    Don’t sweat it, Chris. Cynicism is a virtue when applied to the poor arguments and ‘evidence’ of creationism.

  8. TW on March 24th, 2007 3:03 pm

    Sunder, excellent response – thanks for clearing things up.

  9. Erp on March 25th, 2007 4:57 am

    I found it amusing on several levels but especially Dembski’s ignorance of Darwin’s lack of bigotry relative to most people of his time.

    Charles Darwin’s book Voyage of the Beagle had many sections that were anti-slavery and several of his letters show a staunch anti-slavery feeling. He might not have been as active as some of his relatives such as his grandfather Josiah Wedgwood, who btw was a friend of Wilberforce, but he was almost certainly more active than most in Britain. As for racist, most serious racists don’t hire a man of a different race as a teacher as Charles Darwin did when a student at Edinburgh. He probably wouldn’t have wanted his daughter to marry a non-white but then I doubt Wilberforce would have liked that idea either.

  10. Congo Dave on March 30th, 2007 10:16 am

    I tried to comment on Dembski’s site, but the same 8 posts have remained on the offending article since I posted, without the addition of mine. I presume he just picks and chooses which posts he wants up on his site.
    I, like everyone I imagine, was particularly dumfounded at the link between Darwin and Naziism.
    The guy’s either an idiot, or knows what he’s writing is full of flaws but chooses to ignore it.

  11. nullifidian on March 30th, 2007 12:06 pm

    Congo Dave, I don’t doubt that for an instant. It appears, from my self-imposed limited exposure to that particular den of idiocy, that he approves comments that he feels comfortable in either being able to refute (within the contect of his corrupted worldview), or simply ignore.

    The only other thing I might say is don’t hold your breath for approval on that blog. If you made a good argument, I’m sure you can rest assured that your rebuttal will never see the light of day.

    Feel free to post it here if you wish.

  12. DMM on January 8th, 2009 8:01 am

    Do you think that a Nazi couldn't have exsisted until the term was officially 'coined'? Where do you think Hitler got his inspiration from?

    Professing yourself to be so wise, you come off as a fool!

  13. nullifidian on January 8th, 2009 8:24 am

    Yes. "Nazi" comes from the German phrase for 'national socialism' and refers to the National Socialist German Workers’ Party under Hitler. If one wants to be precise, one can instead use the far more generic term 'fascist', although Darwin wasn't one of those, either.

    And, according to Mein Kampf, Hitler got some of his inspiration, inter alia, from Lutheran ideas of christianity and bizarre ideas about 'racial purity' from seeing Jews in Austria where he grew up, but don't let ignorance of little facts like that get in the way of your opinion.

    Not that your comment has anything to so with my post though, but thanks for the strawman.

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