2025 Responseshttp://www.nullifidian.net/2007/04/26/the-ikea-hijab/The+IKEA+hijab2007-04-26+12%3A52%3A56nullifidian to “The IKEA hijab”

1. ES on May 4th, 2007 6:56 am

   That’s really funny. Did you check out the “party wear”? I think I saw my grandma’s scarf there.

2. nullifidian on May 4th, 2007 12:46 pm

   I think I saw my grandma’s scarf there.

   :-)

3. Hamish on May 8th, 2007 12:26 am

   Flatpack line was funny. “hijab/niqab/blahblahblahab” just ignorant.

   Please don’t let a genuine concern about religious prevelige in society turn into prejudice and hostility. Believe it or not atheists are far from the most hard done by in society – the lot of British Muslims is generally far worse. It wasn’t loing ago for example (after Jack rraw’s comments) that women had their “hijab/niqab/blahblahblahabs” pulled from their head and were punched in the face in the street. Not very nice.

   The reality is that like the rest of us, Muslims are people full of contradictions and diversity and complexity trying to make sense of the differents dimensions of our lives. There’s a huge middle ground between strictly orthodox interpretations and the non religious.

   Why not talk to someone who wears a vibrant or designer hijab -ask them if they see a contradiction. They won’t bite!

   Best wishes

   Hamish

4. nullifidian on May 8th, 2007 5:05 am

   Hi Hamish, thanks for the comment.

   My observation re: hijab/niqab/blahblahblahab was down to the fact that, although there may be a plethora of nouns in Arabic for the subtle varieties of these things, I don’t see much difference in any piece of clothing designed as a human yoke under any guise, including that of modesty, and as such the individual attributions aren’t of particular importance. Feel free to substitute a generic “headscarf” label if you feel that it scans better for you.

   I wasn’t making any kind of comparison with atheists so that’s a bit of a red herring, although since you bring it up I might question your assertion that British muslims have it “far worse”. I don’t see any laws or social constructs (e.g. council house advancement, advocacy groups, specialist medical personnel/treatment) that offer additional privilege or institutional deference to non-believers as they do muslims and other religious adherents. In terms of societal acceptance and understanding, you perhaps have a point in as much as most of the UK population is not muslim, and of course I am a member of that population. Although I would ask you to turn this idea around, and see if it applies equally with the situation in, say, Saudi Arabia. How is a muslim likely to be treated by the state in the UK compared with a non-muslim in Iran?

   I do hope that you’re not insinuating that I advocate the forced removal of headscarves or of physical violence on their person. I most certainly do not think that the people who take it upon themselves to disrobe these women have any appreciation for the nuances of individuality nor of freedom, and I certainly don’t support such behaviour. For what it’s worth, I’ve never valued the simplistic judgement of a mob of John Q Publics over an individual with a willingness to use their brain. Down that path leads to such behaviour as you mention and the irrational and senseless vigilante-style violence against paediatricians in lieu of paedophiles.

   As far as I’m concerned people are free to wear (or not) whatsoever they wish, although I do question their judgement or motives in purposefully wearing a symbol of oppression. If it makes them feel better in themselves, all the good to them, but if they do it through some compulsion from the ‘leaders’ of their religion or some allusion to a tradition of biased gender roles, I feel justified in asking if it’s appropriate to perpetuate a stereotype. As the cliché goes, a gilded cage is still a cage.

   I’m sure that should I ever come across someone who does wear one, I’ll speak to them should they be willing to reciprocate. I’ve only ever (and rarely) met or spoken to muslim women that wear black or white ones: perhaps where I live they’re more demure or conservative than some of their more fashion-conscious co-religionists elsewhere.

   Perchance you’re mistaking my bemusement and bafflement for prejudice?

   Cheers.

5. Hamish on May 8th, 2007 9:38 am

   Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post in full. All comments we made with the intention of
   encouraging good relations between all religious and non-religious individuals.

   There’s some good pieces on the BBC website about the why’s and wherefores and the differences I’d recommend.
   http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/beliefs/
   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5411320.stm

   My personal view is that the hijab can be both a tool of oppression and a tool of liberation and empowerment – depending on the society they are used within. So in Saudi Arabia they are part of pervasive system in which women are denied rights and have little choice but to cover up. But in the UK, I’d argue women generally chose them freely and they (along with general modest attire) offer a way to avoid being seen as sexual objects (you only need to look at Zoo or Nuts to see the worse excesses of sexualising women). This modesty is something observed by some women of all backgrounds – we have a long tradition of feminism in this country after all.

   Obviously it’s not quite this clear cut and there’s a whole range of reasons for wearing the hijab including cultural norms and so within that women will try to look cool and wear Calvin Klein headscarves etc. but still in these cases they are not tools of oppression.

   I think things get mixed up when some people look at the UK as reason for supporting the hijab universally and others look at Saudi Arabia as a reason for opposing the hijab. But I think the head scarf is almost immaterial (pun intended!) and a distraction – what’s more important is whether people have equal rights and freedoms.

   I didn’t mean to suggest that you advocated violence at all, and I’m sorry if it came across as that. I just fear that blanket criticism/ mockery of the hijab contributes to a climate in which nasty idiots feel they can do these things.

   The comparison with atheists I guess was driven by a wider concern about the tone of atheist arguments sometimes (I am an atheist by the way!). I think it’s critical we champion our own cause, promote scientific, rational world views and oppose religious privilege but we mustn’t loose sight of our other identities (not that you have!). We are humans after all and if we are serious about tackling religious discrimination we need to look out for others who aren’t exactly like us, otherwise we’re all just fighting our own corner. Then we are screwed.

   But the fact is Muslims on average have the worse health, lowest education, highest employment, are most likely to report religious discrimination. 65% Bangladeshis and 55% Pakistanis (together about 2/3 of all Muslims) live in poverty. Similarly Somalis face extreme disadvantage.
   http://www.statistics.gov.uk/focuson/religion/
   http://www.jrf.org.uk/pressroom/releases/300407.asp
   I suppose it’s about keeping perspective

   I agree that minorities in other countries are generally treated far worse than they are here (but please remember this is not just true of religious minorities in Muslim countries) but that’s a reason to take heart at how far we have come not an excuse to say we’ve done enough (not that you are saying that!)

   I’m glad you are open to discussing this issue should the opportunity arise. Hopefully that sort of open mindedness can help breakdown misconceptions that people might have of us humanists/ atheists

   Sincere best wishes

   Hamish