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	<title>Comments on: The Times: Religion-free education in UK may be made illegal</title>
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	<link>http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/</link>
	<description>Not praying for (or on) you</description>
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		<title>By: nullifidian</title>
		<link>http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/comment-page-1/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>nullifidian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 22:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/#comment-477</guid>
		<description>BEAJ, I suspect that you misunderestimate (sic) the influence that the religious (i.e. CofE bishops) have in our parliament - it&#039;s blatent, unapologetic and they&#039;re happy to spout about their god and the virtues of their belief system at any opportunity.  I think it&#039;s quite feasable...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BEAJ, I suspect that you misunderestimate (sic) the influence that the religious (i.e. CofE bishops) have in our parliament &#8211; it&#8217;s blatent, unapologetic and they&#8217;re happy to spout about their god and the virtues of their belief system at any opportunity.  I think it&#8217;s quite feasable&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Why Dont You Blog? : Educational Standards</title>
		<link>http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/comment-page-1/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>Why Dont You Blog? : Educational Standards</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 19:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/#comment-455</guid>
		<description>[...] Nullifidian discusses an article in the Times which reports that the Religious Education Council (REC) is trying to remove a parent&#8217;s right to remove their children from a religious education class. This is pretty shocking and as you might imagine the arguments put forward by the REC are riddled with nonsense. It seems they have a &#8220;Good Idea&#8221; and the best of intentions (and it would do them well to remember the road to hell here&#8230;) but, as with most things Religious types get involved with, the practicalities and implementation sucks. When I was at school, RE was 95% Christianity, 4% Judaism and 1% Islam. I don&#8217;t recall any other world religion being mentioned, but it was good in teaching me the nonsense and sheer &#8220;woo&#8221; being spouted by theists. Thank [insert deity of choice] for Science classes&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nullifidian discusses an article in the Times which reports that the Religious Education Council (REC) is trying to remove a parent&#8217;s right to remove their children from a religious education class. This is pretty shocking and as you might imagine the arguments put forward by the REC are riddled with nonsense. It seems they have a &#8220;Good Idea&#8221; and the best of intentions (and it would do them well to remember the road to hell here&#8230;) but, as with most things Religious types get involved with, the practicalities and implementation sucks. When I was at school, RE was 95% Christianity, 4% Judaism and 1% Islam. I don&#8217;t recall any other world religion being mentioned, but it was good in teaching me the nonsense and sheer &#8220;woo&#8221; being spouted by theists. Thank [insert deity of choice] for Science classes&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Atheist Jew</title>
		<link>http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>The Atheist Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 11:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/#comment-451</guid>
		<description>This has no shot of happening in England I would imagine.  I couldn&#039;t even see it happening in the US, and they are almost a theocratic state.
I have no problem with courses being offered that compares belief systems and religions, but not mandatory ones.
I think a good way to squash this is to add atheism into the program.   That might shut the believers up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has no shot of happening in England I would imagine.  I couldn&#8217;t even see it happening in the US, and they are almost a theocratic state.<br />
I have no problem with courses being offered that compares belief systems and religions, but not mandatory ones.<br />
I think a good way to squash this is to add atheism into the program.   That might shut the believers up.</p>
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		<title>By: nullifidian</title>
		<link>http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/comment-page-1/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>nullifidian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 16:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Traditionally, at least in my experience, RE was more along the lines of comparative religion, with a large chunk of humanities thrown in (I got my first and last taste of conversational Spanish in an RE class).

However, recently I&#039;ve heard reports (via emails from the NSS, etc.) of RE classes increasingly being used as a place where children are being forced to read christian bibles, listen to koranic readings, etc., rather than being exposed to the broader and far less specific comparative religion textbook that we had as kids.  This would have been unheard of in my youth, and I would have, at the time, demanded that my parents remove me from the class (or made such a nuisance of myself that I would have been excluded by the school itself).

We have, for a good number of years now, enjoyed the position that parents could opt-out of RE lessons for their children should the parent request it (and more recently if the pupil is in the 6th form [~17-18 years old] and requests it themselves).  But this council aims to make RE totally mandatory, even for those who would not want anything to do with any form of religion whatsoever.  While religion has a pretence to ethics and philosophy, these subjects are an aside from religion itself and should have their own class (possibly in conjunction with critical thinking), and while it&#039;s a utter failure in its supposed explanations of reality, I can&#039;t see how they can justify it being forced on anyone.

There&#039;s also the issue of what aspects of religion to present.  Who gets to decide what is &quot;good&quot; religious education?  Representatives of the various religions themselves?  Are they simply going to present the Sunday hymn-singing-tea-with-the-vicar and pious-kneeling-mosque-regulars types of religion, or are they going to include all the hateful bigotry and niche bam-pottery that is an integral part of it?  Are teachers expected to promote, for example, catholic distaste for homosexuals or islamic hatred of infidels as virtues, or will they just gloss over and ignore them?  If the latter, then they&#039;d completely fail in the aims of the strategy, as it&#039;s for a greater understanding of precisely this sort of behaviour that the strategy is being promoted in the first place.

Don&#039;t get me wrong, I&#039;m for an appreciation of comparative mainstream religion while it&#039;s an integral part of the public sphere, and I would obviously prefer it if religion was purely a private matter of interest to no-one but the individual, but while the people promoting this strategy have an agenda to advance indoctrination outwith their &quot;concern&quot; for education, I think it&#039;s a huge mistake to make this compulsory for anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Traditionally, at least in my experience, RE was more along the lines of comparative religion, with a large chunk of humanities thrown in (I got my first and last taste of conversational Spanish in an RE class).</p>
<p>However, recently I&#8217;ve heard reports (via emails from the NSS, etc.) of RE classes increasingly being used as a place where children are being forced to read christian bibles, listen to koranic readings, etc., rather than being exposed to the broader and far less specific comparative religion textbook that we had as kids.  This would have been unheard of in my youth, and I would have, at the time, demanded that my parents remove me from the class (or made such a nuisance of myself that I would have been excluded by the school itself).</p>
<p>We have, for a good number of years now, enjoyed the position that parents could opt-out of RE lessons for their children should the parent request it (and more recently if the pupil is in the 6th form [~17-18 years old] and requests it themselves).  But this council aims to make RE totally mandatory, even for those who would not want anything to do with any form of religion whatsoever.  While religion has a pretence to ethics and philosophy, these subjects are an aside from religion itself and should have their own class (possibly in conjunction with critical thinking), and while it&#8217;s a utter failure in its supposed explanations of reality, I can&#8217;t see how they can justify it being forced on anyone.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also the issue of what aspects of religion to present.  Who gets to decide what is &#8220;good&#8221; religious education?  Representatives of the various religions themselves?  Are they simply going to present the Sunday hymn-singing-tea-with-the-vicar and pious-kneeling-mosque-regulars types of religion, or are they going to include all the hateful bigotry and niche bam-pottery that is an integral part of it?  Are teachers expected to promote, for example, catholic distaste for homosexuals or islamic hatred of infidels as virtues, or will they just gloss over and ignore them?  If the latter, then they&#8217;d completely fail in the aims of the strategy, as it&#8217;s for a greater understanding of precisely this sort of behaviour that the strategy is being promoted in the first place.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I&#8217;m for an appreciation of comparative mainstream religion while it&#8217;s an integral part of the public sphere, and I would obviously prefer it if religion was purely a private matter of interest to no-one but the individual, but while the people promoting this strategy have an agenda to advance indoctrination outwith their &#8220;concern&#8221; for education, I think it&#8217;s a huge mistake to make this compulsory for anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: AV</title>
		<link>http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>AV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 15:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.nullifidian.net/2007/05/06/no-more-religion-free-education/#comment-430</guid>
		<description>What kind of religious education is taught in UK schools? Is it religious instruction--i.e. indoctrination in the tenets of a particular religion like Islam or Christianity--or comparative religion.

The former ought to be a definite no-no in public schools in a secular liberal democracy (but then the UK has an established church, doesn&#039;t it?). 

If, on the other hand, it&#039;s some combination of sociology of religion and philosophy/ethics--well, I wouldn&#039;t necessarily object to that, because you can theoretically do philosophy and ethics (and sociology of religion, for that matter) in a public school without threatening the separation of church and state (which I realise doesn&#039;t technically exist in the UK.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What kind of religious education is taught in UK schools? Is it religious instruction&#8211;i.e. indoctrination in the tenets of a particular religion like Islam or Christianity&#8211;or comparative religion.</p>
<p>The former ought to be a definite no-no in public schools in a secular liberal democracy (but then the UK has an established church, doesn&#8217;t it?). </p>
<p>If, on the other hand, it&#8217;s some combination of sociology of religion and philosophy/ethics&#8211;well, I wouldn&#8217;t necessarily object to that, because you can theoretically do philosophy and ethics (and sociology of religion, for that matter) in a public school without threatening the separation of church and state (which I realise doesn&#8217;t technically exist in the UK.)</p>
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